Lisa Stringfellow, award-winning author and middle school teacher, discusses her debut novel about mermaids and mythology set in the Caribbean, “A Comb of Wishes.” She talks through her long journey from draft to finished book—plus plans for Book 2—and shares craft and industry tips she’s learned along the way.

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Transcript of Podcast episoDe 31: Interview with Lisa Stringfellow, Middle-Grade Fantasy Author

Hello, everybody. My name is Mary Kole. This is "The Good Story Podcast," and with me, I have Lisa Stringfellow, middle-grade author. Lisa, welcome.

Lisa: Thank you so much, Mary. I'm excited to be here.

Mary: I'm excited to have you. Well, let's dive in. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, about your book? Very exciting new-ish release.

Lisa: Yes. So, I am a middle-grade author, as you said. My book "A Comb of Wishes" came out on February 8th of 2022 with HarperCollins/Quill Tree Books. It's a fantasy set in the Caribbean, an invented Caribbean Island about a young girl who is recently grieving the loss of her mother and stumbles upon a mermaid's comb, and the mermaid makes contact with her and gives her the opportunity to make a wish in exchange for returning the comb. And of course, there's just one thing the main character wants more than anything, which is to have her mom back. So, that is the premise of the story. Magic ensues.

Mary: Magic ensues. And of course, this is a play on this mythological object of the mermaid's comb. Is that... Well, actually before we start talking about the book, you didn't mention much about yourself. Who is Lisa the person?

Lisa: I didn't. So, I am also a teacher. So, I live in the Boston areand I teach middle school English, so I have fifth and sixth grade. This is my 28th year of teaching, so I've been teaching for a long time. I love that grade level. And I, you know, like to do writing with my students as well. And, yeah, that's, kind of, like, my passion between writing with myself and writing with my students.

Mary: Well, we'll definitely talk about the synergies there, because you have this, sort of, wonderful ecosystem in which your creative work and your professional work and, sort of, the people that you interact with all day every day, there's a confluence there, definitely. But let's talk about the book. So, I was going to ask, you are playing with the magical object, the mermaid's comb, which has a pretty long history in mythology. So, were you inspired by that or how did you come up with the idea for this premise?

Lisa: Yeah, I have always loved, like, mermaid lore and stories. And so when I was thinking about writing this book, I started my first draft back in 2013. So, a while ago and I had read a book called "The Tail Of Emily Windsnap," which is about a mermaid, a girl who discovers that she's part mermaid. And that was just a fun, lighthearted book, and so I thought, "I would love to write a mermaid story, too," but I also had recently read around that same time "Coraline" by Neil Gaiman, which is a totally different kind of book, kind of dark, and that was very...

Mary: I was going to say I'm struggling to see the parallel.

Lisa: And so I thought I would love to tell a story about a mermaid, but she's kind of a little bit of a scary mermaid and a little bit of an antagonist. So, that was where that came in. And in my research, thinking about all the elements of mermaids that I wanted to include, combs obviously are on that list. There's things like mirrors associated with mermaids' combs, wishes. I tried to incorporate elements from well-known stories, so, you know, Hans Christian Andersen's "The Little Mermaid." Obviously, a lot of people know the Disney version and maybe have read the original fairytale.

Mary: You're in for a surprise.

Lisa: I know. So, there's elements of that story in the book as well. But, yeah, just I wanted to lean on the familiar but also make it a little different than maybe people have seen.

Mary: So, I think that's really interesting because I am often speaking with people who choose to do adaptations or they choose to pick something from mythology or history or popular culture and run with it. So, what was your approach to maybe doing something a little bit more unique with your take on a mermaid story?

Lisa: Mm-hmm. So, one of the first decisions I made was to set the story in the Caribbean and to also have my characters be Black characters that live in the islands. Part of that connects to my heritage. My dad was from Barbados, and so, you know, growing up here in the United States, I still was surrounded by, you know, food, and culture, and music. And then there's aspects of the Caribbean and just the history of the islands that you can't quite escape, kind of, where things came from. And so the slave trade obviously is, like, a big part of, like, the history of where, you know, the people came from and stories and traditions that they brought with them.

So, even in the fantastical parts of the story, there's still, like, awareness and recognition of some of, like, that traumatic history, you know, when the character does research into, like, where this mysterious comb may have come from. You know, she talks about with people that, you know, there were ships, and there were shipwrecks, and what were these ships carrying, and all of that.

So, I think, you know, some of that, weaving in real history with, kind of, like, the fantastic and the tropes that we're familiar with was something that I wanted to do and make sure that I nodded to those things that, you know, really need to be part of the story if you're going to set it where it is.

Mary: But you chose a fictional island.

Lisa: I did. So, everything about the island of St. Rita is inspired by the real island of Barbados. And so I wanted to have, kind of, that creative freedom to change things around or be okay if I didn't get some things quite right that someone who, you know, like my family who still lives there would be like, "Wait a minute, that geography seems a little different." But, yes, it's definitely, you know, from down to the expressions that people use or foods and music draws from Barbados, but it's a name that I made up. So, a lot of people have told me like, "Oh, I Googled St. Rita and I couldn't find it." I'm like, "Nope, I made it up."

Mary: So, I like that. You're very intentional about weaving in your background and real history, but you wanted to take some creative liberties. You wanted a little bit of freedom just like, you know, setting something in a very real place. You're right. It's, sort of, beholden to people with deep knowledge of that place, people have certain expectations. This is a clever way to, you know, run alongside Barbados and what's familiar there but still be able to, sort of, make your own little universe there.

Lisa: Yeah, and I think also being a member of the diaspora of the islands also puts me in a little bit of a different position. Like, I feel part of everything, but I'm also not living there. I wasn't born there. I know it through my family and through my visits, but it's not first-hand in the same way. So, thinking about that was part of my thought process, too.

Mary: That's really interesting. So, I guess there's the question of lived experience, and almost like you feel comfortable. You know, you feel that it is a part of you but maybe not the first-hand part.

Lisa: Yeah, and I think there's real experiences. I know different authors of color I've heard talk about not being whatever that identity is enough, not feeling that sometimes, and feeling the weight of getting things right and critique but also feeling like you want to own your experience as your truth as well. And so, yeah, but definitely you want to make it something that everyone who's familiar with the islands would say, "Oh, I recognize that," or, "That's something that reminds me of when I've been there or what I experienced."

Mary: I think that's a really interesting, sort of, balance of owning our experience as, like, a second generation or a member of the diaspora who happens to be in Boston and how to navigate that bit of distance. Very interesting. So, getting back to the fantasy element, so there's very much an underpinning that comes from reality and you wanted to work with mermaids because they are fabulous. You maybe wanted a little bit more of a sinister mermaid in the vein of a Gaiman mermaid rather than a Disney mermaid. Because sometimes when we think about working with some of these fantasy elements, we're like, "Oh, wouldn't it be cool if my character was a mermaid?" But you very specifically went in the direction of mermaid as antagonist, and the character, sort of, stumbles upon this entire fantasy world that maybe snuck up on her, she wasn't expecting.

Lisa: Part of my process was thinking about...I did have this mermaid character that I wanted whoever my main character was going to develop into to interact, and I wanted my main character to have that trope of making a wish on a mermaid's comb. And I'm very much I think more of a premise person when I start writing, thinking of the idea of something and what is it going to be about, and then start thinking about who the characters are that would be part of that story.

But when I started thinking about the girl or the character who would be interacting and making this wish, that was I guess when I could dig a little bit deeper into what would she want to what would a 12-year-old want and what's important to them, and realizing that for it to be as weighty as I wanted, it would be a loss, something that she wanted back. And so that's how I started developing Kela's character. And there is a connection that she and Ophidia, who's the mermaid, both have their arcs in the story and change and grow a little bit, and they're connected to one another. But, yeah, that's the avenue I really was interested in exploring.

Mary: Well, I love the almost just delicious decision and sacrifice that goes into this impossible wish. You know, it's not just, "I want to meet my favorite musician," or, you know, "I want the boy at school to like me or the girl in school to like me," or whatever. It's, "I want to bring my mother back," and it is just this primal wound that she has, this grief. And it is almost a Faustian bargain. She's going to have to sacrifice in order to even try and make a wish like that, and it sounds like she finds a willing player to engage in that kind of dance.

Lisa: Yeah, and that was fun to explore, the whole idea of magic having a cost and how much you would be willing to pay. I'm a big fan of other fantasy TV shows, and I remember when I was in the middle of drafting, "Once Upon a Time" was a TV show that was on that I used to love to watch, and they always taught Rumpelstiltskin about, "Magic always has a cost." But that's in so many fairytales, too.

And I think just even with world-building resources and things that I've read and talked to other people about that there always is this ripple effect that things shouldn't ever be free and easy and the character can decide what they're willing and then what the consequence is. And I think Kela, she hears that, but she doesn't quite really internalize that at the beginning, and that's part of her growth, too, because she's feeling very like it's personal to her, and she wants what she wants.

And it's part of her regret over things that she said to her mother before her mother's accident that, "I hate you," because her life had changed and her mother was busy and working and asking more of her to help, and I think that's very normal for kids to be resentful when things change and things aren't the way they're used to. And so she wants her mother back because she wants her life to be what it was, and then she has to adapt to what the consequences are.

Mary: And kids, it's developmentally appropriate to also, you know, have an outsized feeling of responsibility and to feel... I mean, they have main character syndrome because they are the center of their universe even when they're a main character. So, to be dealing with all of those emotions, it must be very tempting to be presented with a magical solution, but as with so many magical bargains or magical offerings or wishes that aren't worded maybe exactly correctly, there is a flip side.

And so you say that your antagonist, our evil mermaid, has an arc as well. So, while you were crafting your protagonist arc with this loss, these changes, this what if, this deep regret, what's going on for the mermaid?

Lisa: I think that, again with that theme of mirrors, it's almost a mirror of Kela in some way. And I think when I first imagined Ophidia, I did have her in mind as very like a monstrous creature and that she would do things out of vengeance. And as I was developing her character, I started thinking about like, "Well, vengeance due to what, out of what?" and that made her more complex to think about those things. And I guess I don't think of her so much as evil anymore. I think that maybe was an original thought, but now I think of her more as misunderstood and also misguided. Her interactions led her to believe that humans are a certain way, and are greedy, and selfish.

So, she just sees them as the thing that's keeping her from continuing her existence, so she has to make this bargain with this girl, this child in order to survive. But as she, in this whole bargain with the girl, eventually has trouble fulfilling her promise to return. Ophidia again, is misunderstanding things and that causes her to do things as well. And there's I think always these two sides of the story that I enjoyed playing with being able to have them both as POV characters. That was something that took a while to decide was the right fit for the story, but they both tell their side. And the reader sees that everybody doesn't have all of the information and they're only working off of sometimes assumptions or what seems obvious, but there's maybe more behind the scenes. So, yeah, I'm hoping that she comes across more as a complex person that people can understand as opposed to just the monstrous, dangerous mermaid.

Mary: Well, I like that she seemed to be your entry point to the story. And so you maybe were more inspired to give her that layered treatment and that understanding, that empathy, because I feel like an antagonist who is doing evil for the sake of evil, interested in vengeance for the sake of vengeance, that's a flat character. I think that the best antagonists are just a couple of clicks away from us empathizing with them. You know, they believe that what they're doing is the right choice. They're believing that they are the hero of their own story. And if there have been misunderstandings, and assumptions, and confirmation bias for her in her life experiences, then she could easily arrive at this conclusion about humans.

Lisa: Yeah, and I think that was the process for me that didn't come until the later drafts because... And over the process of writing the book, the ending had changed a few times, and not giving any spoilers, the final ending of the book is very similar to my original ending of the book, but the reason we changed it in the first version is that Ophidia was just...it didn't seem believable because she, at that point, was just so evil and you didn't feel the empathy for her. And so it made the ending seem very strange. And in the process of adding all of the backstory to her and adding the emotions and the reasons, then it was like, "Oh, okay, now this ending could work because you see her more of as a well-rounded creature who has the ability to change and grow based on what they've learned." But, yeah, that layering took some time and some work.

Mary: So, that's a really interesting, kind of, craft nugget, a little takeaway there, that sometimes it's not the element, right? You're looking at this ending as you originally envisioned it, and you're thinking, "This doesn't work, this doesn't work." Well, sometimes the change doesn't have to do with that element, it has to do with the stuff around it and the context of that element and how you frame it up.

Lisa: Yes, absolutely. That was definitely that she was a different character in the later revisions, a more rich character that made that able to work when originally it just seemed like it maybe wasn't the right ending, but it was. It just needed work in other areas.

Mary: So, speaking of that work, you mentioned working on this project since 2013, and it came out in 2022. So, can you talk us through... Hey, I'm not calling that out in one way or the other. I think it's great to talk to people who have been working on a project for a while because it normalizes that novels take time. Publishing takes time. So, can you talk us through your journey and how you went from draft to this finished book?

Lisa: Yeah. So, in 2013, I was in the classroom. I had actually just finished working on my master's program and thinking a lot about books and the kids and...

Mary: Master's programs tend to do that.

Lisa: Yes. And so I had a friend who had put a little seed in my head and said, "There are gaps on the shelves and books about protagonists of color written by authors of color. That's a number that still hasn't grown a lot in the years, and it needed contributions." And so I was like, "Yeah, okay, maybe I will try to write something." And so National Novel Writing Month, NaNoWriMo, is something that I've done since that time I had discovered it, and I thought, "Okay, that's a good motivation. It sets, kind of, a goal to do a fast draft."

And I did it with my students. So, as a classroom teacher, they have a young writer's program for any kid who's K-12 and you can adapt it. And so in 2012, I started doing NaNoWriMo with my students in the classroom, and this book was a second attempt to try to write something, and I said to them, "I'm going to ask you to do a novel. Obviously your word count." The kids get to set their own word counts. They don't have to write 50,000 words like the adults do, but I said, "I'm going to do it with you." So, we all would sit down and work together.

And so I wrote that draft and, in November 2013, I started it. I won NaNoWriMo. So, I did get to 50,000 words on that manuscript, but the novel wasn't finished obviously. So, I kept working on it into the next year. Finally did finish it in 2014 and then realized that there was just a lot still that I needed to learn. I should have said that before I started trying to write. I realized that writing and teaching literature was different than being a creator.

And so I started seeking out organizations that I could learn from, and workshop, and classes, and found a critique group, and all of that. So, in 2014, I'm working on revision and taking classes on revision and working with my critique group. I applied to two different mentorship programs in that set of years. One was Author Mentor Match, and one was Writing in the Margins, and both accepted me. And the great thing about that was that the two different authors that I worked with, one was a middle-grade author and one was a YA author, and they brought different insights to my manuscript. So, my middle-grade friend now looked a lot and commented to me about voice and did things sound like what a 12-year-old would say and work that way. And so that was really helpful. And then my mentor who was a YA author very much was...she was a fantasy writer, and so she looked at the character building and the world building and pacing and all of these other things.

And so with both of their help, I polished it, finally sent it to query in 2018, so this is now years down the road, and then I had an offer of representation from my agent. And as I tell my students, first thing that we did was start revising again. She asked me that on her call, "Would you be willing to revise?" and I'm like, "Of course, I'd be willing to revise." So, we did. We did at least three passes, and it took us about 18 months to make some changes. And part of that was all of those ending changes that I talked about and then we started querying or started sending it on submission in 2019.

And so it was a long process but, at that point, I was really excited because there was a lot of interest from the editors who received it and we went to auction eventually and ended up with HarperCollins. So, a very long journey but really making me feel like all the hard work paid off in the end and it ended up with a great, wonderful team and editor who gave me other wonderful insights. And, again, we revised some more.

Mary: You have to do more revisions.

Lisa: Exactly.

Mary: Yup. This counts as a surprise to a lot of writers. By the time they query a project, they are ready to never see it again ever. And then the agent shows up, and it's like, "Hey, I have some notes and some ideas for revision."

Lisa: Exactly. And, you know, it's funny though because I think I've said this to my students before that, when you get feedback, whether it's from a critique partner or agents and others, it's really good to listen and just think about what that person is seeing. And there's definitely feedback that I got from critique partners early on that I was like, "No, no, no. That's not what I want," or, "That's not what..." And people would mention something again. And sometimes I've said to my students that what they're suggesting might not be the right fit or the best fit but the fact that they're pointing something out is worth paying attention to.

But sometimes they do have good ideas that you should listen to. So, there are some things that...sometimes I would say, "No, no, no," and then I'm like, "Okay, fine. Just because you keep mentioning it, I'll try it," and then I'm like, "Oh, that was actually really good change." So being open-ended is good.

Mary: Sometimes it's identifying where there might be an issue. Ideally, you'll also get a sense of what the issue is or why it's coming up, but again that fix may not be...it's not the ending that was the issue. It was the framing around the ending. So, sometimes you can take feedback at face value, but you can also, sort of, reverse engineer your action plan from feedback in ways that maybe the person giving feedback didn't anticipate, but it's possible to meet feedback in the middle like that sometimes.

Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah, I've been so fortunate to have, you know, really helpful feedback from people at different stages. And sometimes they led to just fortuitous changes that I wouldn't have anticipated. One of the stories I tell is, in a writing class I took, somebody in the class was a writer, but she also was a marine biologist in her day job. And she commented that Kela, in that manuscript, collected seashells and she said, "This is so great, but I don't know if you know that collecting seashells can be damaging for beaches and the environment because of..." And she mentioned a couple things, and I was like, "I'd never heard that before," and I started looking into it and realizing, "Gosh, it disrupts habitats from animals who use the shells, and it can lead to erosion. And I don't want to add to that."

And so I started thinking about what else could Kela be a collector of that might also work with the jewelry that she makes in the story and is like part of her hobbies, and that was when I thought about sea glass, and that sea glass is basically trash. Humans have put it in the ocean, and the ocean is throwing it back at us, and it looks a lot prettier. And it wasn't until after I said, "Okay, that's what she's going to collect." And I started looking into the types of sea glass and all of that, that I discovered that folklore story about mermaid's tears, and that was like the Universe was saying, "See, that was a good change because now you have a whole connection and a thread that you can explore that I wouldn't have if she still collected shells."

Mary: That's really interesting. And as we revise, as a draft starts to pull together, that really is the process toward the end of a writing project, which is finding those connections or creating new connections or finding resonance to what you've already built into your story or what you're revising into the story. So, that's fascinating that you found this, sort of, mythological folklore underpinning for sea glass.

Lisa: Yeah, it just added to, again, this mermaid lore and strengthening the connection to things that people might be familiar or stories that are out there with the story that I was creating on my own.

Mary: Because that's a question I find in middle grade all the time being asked either by me giving feedback on a manuscript or in terms of story logic. It's like, "Why a kid?" Right? Now, we all know that a 12-year-old, 13-year-old is very, very capable at a lot of things. We don't underestimate them. You would never underestimate your students. That being said, why is this mythological, maybe eternal being relying on a kid? You know, what is so special about Kela that she is the missing piece of this much bigger story?

Lisa: Yeah. Well, and I think that's where...when you mentioned world-building, it's like those logical rules. So, there are constraints to Ophidia's magic. Because of what her comb represents to her, when it's taken by a person and how she got it, there are certain rules that she has to follow. So, as much as she would love to just go grab it and get it back, she can't. There's these constraints that she's got, that she's got to offer a wish in exchange, and she's got to wait for the girl to return it. And her threat that she says, "And if you don't, I'm going to come get you." So, there's that looming conflict over Kela that she is going to get what she wants, but she's got to fulfill her end of the bargain. So, there's that.

But I think also Kela and what she wants is very relatable and understandable to adults and kids. I think even if kids haven't lost a parent like she has in the story, many kids have experienced loss in other ways, whether it's a pet or a friend going away or something that they just wish things could be back the way they were. So, I think that's part of why her, because why not her? But she's set into this world where she's got to follow certain rules or else there's consequences as well.

Mary: Yeah, and I think it's change. I mean, I still struggle with change. I am a grown adult, or so they say, you know, and this brings me to what I really want to talk about which is your teaching and how it has, sort of, informed your writing, your understanding of this age group, this age category. Was it ever a question that you would write anything else than middle grade?

Lisa: I definitely would not have started with any other age category because this is the group that I've taught for the longest time, and I have stuck with them because I love this age group, especially the younger middle... In my teaching experience, fifth grade has always been the beginning of the middle school experience in the schools that I've been in, so fifth or eighth grade. And I've taught the older students, and I love them, but there's just the curiosity, the imagination, and the enthusiasm of the younger middle schoolers that I've always loved.

And I think, in terms of having that experience with them has informed the stories, I think a lot about what's important to them, what do they care about. And friendship is important. I see and help advise a lot of friendship issues sometimes with the students. And also just families, they care a lot about their families, the people who love them and take care of them and they would do anything for them. I think when kids are older, they start to become more independent and push their own identities a little bit more, but I think those younger students like in that 8-to-12-year range just really...what's close to them is most important, and I think how they show that is just so very interesting. I'm glad I have a little window into that from working with them.

Mary: Yeah, and it sounds like in Kela's life and what has recently happened to her, she's been forced to leave behind this family identity and individuate herself, go out into the big wide world maybe before she's ready and make some big choices and choices of consequence. You know, these tough, magical quandaries that she is, sort of, embroiled in, they are big decisions and decisions that are going to have consequences, that are going to have ramifications, that she's going to have to own. I mean, in a lot of ways, it's a parallel for our process as we grow up to these ages of 8 through 12 where we individuate ourselves, we start developing a social persona, we maybe separate a little bit from our family of origin.

Lisa: Mm-hmm, and I think one of the things that Kela learns is that she has to still rely on those people who are there to support her. She's trying to just take care of everything on her own at the beginning, whether that's through her grieving process and, "I don't want to make anybody worry, so I'm just going to pretend that everything's okay so that those people think that I'm okay." And then even when she's dealing with this whole magic situation and trying to return this comb and things start to go wrong, it's like, "I'm just going to try to figure it out on my own," and then she comes to realize that I need to tell people. There are people here who keep extending their hands, and extending their hearts, and saying, "We're here for you, whatever you need," and then she has to realize, "Okay, all right, I'm going to tell you," and take that help and accept that.

Mary: You cannot be a lone wolf as much as you want to. And I think that's one of the interesting tensions of middle grade is we start to become aware that the adults around as valuable. We start to become aware that not everything is, you know, the way we might have thought with our child-like or our kid lenses. We start to become more aware of the world, and then the choice is ours whether we want to meet the world where it is and, sort of, develop this new understanding of what's around us.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. And she does encounter...her father, at one point, apologizes to her and says, "I've been trying to make things easier for you by not talking about your mother's death, and I've made mistakes, too, and let's try to be better for each other."

Mary: I think that's lovely. And I don't want you to reveal whether or not she gets her wish, but I would imagine that there is a certain element of acceptance and, you know, rolling with it and dealing with the things that happen to us, that I think anybody but especially an 8 to 12-year-old needs support with this idea of just dealing with it, being resilient, being vulnerable, all of these skills that we would love to give to kids without being pushy or overtly preachy. But it sounds like you've really found a way to... Because what you said earlier was you're a premise writer, which I hardly never get to hear from an author. It sounds like you're telling like a quintessential coming-of-age story but with this fictional fantasy folklore adaptation wrapper that has really found you this sweet spot in the middle-grade market.

Lisa: Yeah, thank you. I think what you said, too, about accepting change is a big part of that. And I think realizing your own fallibility that you can make mistakes, and then you can learn from those mistakes, and change, and that you'll be okay in the end is an important lesson that she and Ophidia have to learn.

Mary: So, that's right. Ophidia is on her own change arc, her own growth trajectory. Is this a standalone? Is it a series? Do you have more books planned? What's the deal looking forward?

Lisa: Yeah, this is a standalone, but I've been having some school visits where students keep talking to me about like, "Oh, you should..." I even had one little boy write a note and gave me an idea about, you know, Kela and Lissy go off looking for jewelry, people who stole jewelry. So, there are definitely people who are interested in me continuing the story in some way. I don't know. I keep thinking that there's definitely lots more to explore with the mermaid world, so that's something that I might have to start thinking about. But I am working on another manuscript right now. I had a two-book deal and so my second book hopefully will come out next fall. We'll see. The timeline keeps changing for so many things right now. But, yeah, it's another standalone fantasy set, kind of, in a totally different world and place. It's actually in a desert, so opposite of the ocean and the beach. But, yeah, so I'm excited to keep playing with this idea of folktales, and fairytales, and storytelling, and history even though it's different characters in different settings.

Mary: Oh, interesting. So, that is, sort of, becoming your authorial brand.

Lisa: I don't know. Maybe. It will only be Book 2. So, I'll have to see where it goes from there. But I do. I would love to do a retelling at some point. You mentioned that, adaptions and retelling, and I think that would be really great to tackle a story and think about how would I want to retell it. So, I think fantasy for sure is a place that I'm happy to stay for a little while as I'm getting myself established and learning my craft still even as I'm writing books. But, yeah, I'd love to do more with fairytales and folklore.

Mary: So, I'm going to put you on the spot because this is such a tough thing to define, but what to you makes a successful premise? If we're, sort of, looking at your future, how are you going to cherry-pick your story ideas and what elements are you looking for when you know that you've hit upon your next idea?

Lisa: I'd like to ask "what if" questions like what if this were true or what if that were true. I have a partial draft of something that came from a "what if" that my students...one year, we used to do a word of the day. And for some reason, the word of the day, kids kept picking phobias, and agrophobia, and all of these phobias.

Mary: They're such great phobia words.

Lisa: They are. And so I just started thinking about these ideas of things that you fear and then what if you could see them, what if there was somebody who could see them, what if people could talk to them. So, you know, things like that. For this manuscript that I'm working on, it's kind of a girl in a tower story, so it started again, same thing, what if, you know, so instead of a princess in a tower, what if a princess rescued a princess in a tower. So, I like to think about how you might flip something or look at it in a different way.

Mary: I really like that. I like that approach because it's like improv. There are no bad ideas in improv. You may not run with all of them, but in improv, we say yes. And you, sort of, build upon an idea that way. And the "what if" question is just a beautiful one to fire up the imagination.

Lisa: Yeah, it's great for just making a list of things. And so I've got like a list of things that, at some point, when I finish the next thing and I'm ready to start something new, I might go back to that list as a starting point and say, "Did any of those ideas resonate at the moment?" and then try them out.

Mary: And do your students know to expect royalties for their contributions to your brainstorming?

Lisa: There's so many over the years where... I think that was one of the interesting things is, you know, as I said, I wrote the first draft of the book in 2013. Those students are now freshmen in college.

Mary: Oh, my goodness.

Lisa: So, they're way older. But over the years, I've had students say like, "Can you give me a copy of your... Can you print a copy of your book?" and just like the way publishing works. They had no idea at first, but now the ones that I have now are pretty knowledgeable. They know that books tend to be published on a Tuesday. I'll [crosstalk 00:46:29]...

Mary: Yes, yes.

Lisa: ...coming out and they'll go, "That's a Tuesday, isn't it?" I'm like, "It probably is." So, their publishing knowledge has risen.

Mary: That is very cool. Do you use them to get feedback or is that just a hard no?

Lisa: No, I really do. So, I mentioned doing NaNoWriMo with them. And so this year, when we put our novels aside for about a month after November just to let them cool off and clear our heads and have fresh eyes. And when we came back, I started talking to them about critique groups and what's the difference between a critique group and peer editing that they're used to, which we're not just correcting spelling and fixing capitalization. We want to think about the story and what is the writer trying to say and maybe give them a chance to answer or ask questions. And so to model that, I showed them a piece of work. So, I showed them actually the first chapter of this manuscript that I'm working on and let them read it. And then they got to do...we practiced sandwich feedback. So, what I like, what I'm wondering about, or what I have a suggestion about, and then something else. And I did. I got a lot of feedback. They gave me their notes at the end.

Mary: Oh, that is fabulous. And by asking them to put their work aside for a month, you have set them up for such success. I wish a lot of NaNoWriMo recent winners would take that cooling-off period to develop some fresh eyes.

Lisa: It is so helpful. And I think in the school situation, it's probably a rare opportunity that they have, because so often we're like, "We've got to get to the next thing." And so it's like write, revise, turn in a final draft and move on. And so a lot of the kids will tell me, for when they're older, "I love NaNoWriMo. It was one of the most fun writing activities that we did." And the fact that it's not just in November, it really takes us to the end of the year, because we have that cooling off and then we come back. And it's so funny that they'll say, you know, "I love this story." And then after the month has passed, "I hate this story. It's so bad." And it's like everybody says that.

Mary: They are now ready to be writers. If you love it one day and hate it the next day and can't even look at it, that is the writing life.

Lisa: That is. Everybody gets that.

Mary: Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you so much for sharing your idea, your thinking, your story craft, your teaching insights. Your students and now your readers are so lucky to have you and our listeners as well. This has been Lisa Stringfellow with her debut, "A Comb of Wishes," out now from HarperCollins/Quill Tree Books. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.

Lisa: Thank you so much.

Mary: It was wonderful chatting with you. And I am Mary Kole with "The Good Story Podcast." Here's to a good story.

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